The Doctrine Of The Trinity
An exert from H.M.BAAGIL's Muslim Christian Dialogue:
M. Do you still believe in the Trinity?
C. Sure, it is written in the First Epistle of John 5:7 & 8, “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth, the spirit, the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”
M. Oh, that is in the authorized King James Version, of 1611, and formed the strongest evidence for the Doctrine of the Trinity. But now this part, “the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one” has been expunged in the Revised Standard Version of 1952 and 1971 and in many other Bibles, as it was a gross error that had encroached on the Greek text according to the Doctors of Divinity of the Church.
C. Really. I was not aware of this! This is shocking!
M. Yes. Also in I John 5:7 & 8 in the New American Standard Bible it reads as follows: “And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness,the Spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement.” Also, in the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures used by the Jehovah’s Witnesses, you will find: “For there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement.”
I can understand if you don’t know that this important part has been removed, but I wonder why many ministers and preachers are not aware of this. Or if they are aware, why don’t they inform their flock of this? The Trinity is not Biblical. The word Trinity is not even in the Bible or even in the Bible dictionaries. It was never taught by Jesus and was never mentioned by him. There is no basis or proof in the Bible whatsoever for the acceptance of the Trinity.
C. But in Matthew 28:19 we still find: “... baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” This part is not removed yet, so is this not a proof of the Trinity?
M. No. If you mention three different persons are sitting or eating together, does it mean that they are forming one person? Definitely not! The formulation of the Trinity by Athanasius, an Egyptian deacon from Alexandria, was accepted by the Council of Nicaea in A.D. 325, i.e. more than three centuries after Jesus had been taken up. Without doubt Roman and Egyptian paganism had influence in this doctrine of the triune god.
C. I want proof of your allegation that there is Roman & Egyptian paganism in Christianity.
M. Okay! These are the Gods & sons of the Gods of the following nations that had influence:
GREEKS Appolo, Dionysius
SYRIANS Adonis & Attis.
EGYPTIANS Osiris, Isis, Horus
BABYLONIANS Baal, Astarte
From the above you can see that these nations worshipped these imaginative gods and idols, and when Paul decided to make Jesus into son of God these nations found it reasonable to believe it.Also the sabbath, which was observed on Saturday by Jesus, was shifted to Sunday; December 25, which was the birthday of their sun god Mithra, was introduced as Jesus’ birthday. The Bible clearly predicted and forbade the decoration of Christmas trees in Jeremiah 10:2-5: “Thus saith the Lord, learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers that it moves not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not; they must be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.” Yet the Christians have been doing this for centuries and the Church & the Priests have not stopped this evil, which is clearly forbidden in the Bible as it is an innovation and against the teachings of the Bible.
The Roman Julian calendar was introduced as the Christian era;the eating of pork became acceptable though Jesus never ate pork, circumcision was abolished by Paul (Galatians 5:2) “Behold, I, Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” Yet circumcision is a covenant between God and Prophet Abraham and his descendants. Abraham and his son and men folk of his household were ordered to circumcise by God. Because Christianity had deviated a long way from the original teachings of Jesus (pbuh), Allah then sent as part of His original plan, His final messenger,Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) as a revivalist to restore the original teachings. Tell me: who is greater? Paul or Abraham. (pbuh).
C. Abraham of course! He was a Prophet of God. Paul is only a disciple.
M. Exactly! Jesus said: “The disciple cannot be greater than the master?” The Bible records that Jesus was circumcised on the 8th day after his birth if you remember and Paul comes and abrogates it. So anyone with a little bit of common sense can see that it is compulsory to circumcise and not accept Paul’s teaching. Jesus states in the Bible that a man who is not circumcised is like a dog! The Holy Qur’an warns in Surah 5:73& 74: “They do blaspheme who say, Allah is Christ the son of Mary. But said Christ: O’Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever joins other gods with Allah- Allah will forbid him the garden, (i.e. paradise) and the fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong doers, be no one to help”.“Surely they are disbelievers, those who say: Allah is one of the three in a Trinity: But there is none who has the right to be worshiped but one God (i.e. Allah). And if they cease not from what they say, verily a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them”. Now do you still believe in the Trinity, which was never taught by Jesus?
C. You have given me a lot of things to think about with this last reply! But God and Jesus are one (John 14:11): “Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me.”
M. Read then John 17:21.
C. “That they (the disciples) all art in one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they may also be art in one...”
M. It is clear here that God and Jesus are one, but also that the disciples are one in Jesus and God. If Jesus is God because he is in God, why are the disciples then not God, as they all are like Jesus also in God? If God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost form one unit of Trinity, then with the disciples included they should form a God unit of fifteen. You see if one reads the context in which this is spoken, then one will realise that God, Jesus and the disciples are one in purpose. i.e. to save humanity from the darkness of disbelief, idol worship and of enslavement to human beings. Suppose that I am a medical doctor, and my
father and my grandfather are medical doctors, and I say, “We are all one”. Anyone who reads or hears this in its proper context will realise that “in profession we are one,” not that we are joined in one unit of creation. Each one is a separate entity and therefore we are three separate persons.
C. But Jesus is God according to John 14:9: “... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father.”
M. See to the context again. What is before and after this: (John 14:8): “Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.” (John 14:9): “Jesus saith unto him, I have been so long a time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hast seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, shew us the Father?” Jesus explained to Philip. You should believe in God by admiring His creation: the sun, the moon, themselves and all the other beautiful creation of God, and Jesus himself who was created by God. Jesus said (John 4:24): “God is a Spirit. (John 5:37): “ . . . ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape.” So how can you see a spirit then? What they saw was Jesus and not God. Also Paul said (I Timothy 6:16): “...whom no man hath seen, nor can see . . .” So what you can see with your eyes can never be God.
C. But Thomas said “my God and my Lord”.
M. Again read the context. It is an exclamation of surprise and shock! Suppose while talking to you, someone informed me that my mother had met an accident and I exclaimed, “my God!” Does it mean that I am calling you “my God?” Of course not! I said “my God” as an exclamation. If you read the context in which Thomas said this, you will see that it was an exclamation. People exclaim “my God” all the time when they hear something shocking.
C. To be honest, it is difficult to deny what has been taught to us since childhood.
M. Maybe the following questions will give you a better understanding of the Trinity. What is the Holy Spirit?
C. The Holy Spirit is the Holy Ghost, is also God. We are taught the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. We are not allowed to say Three Gods, but One God.
M. Read Matthew 1:18.
C. “Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together,she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.”
M. Compare now with Luke 1:26& 27.
C. “And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, to a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.”
M. So in the miraculous birth of Jesus, Matthew mentioned the Holy Ghost and Luke mentioned the angel Gabriel. Who is the Holy Ghost then?
C. The Holy Ghost is then the angel Gabriel!!
M. Exactly! Do you still believe in the Trinity now?
C. Then God is God, the Holy Ghost or the Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel, and Jesus is...
M. Go on! Say it! Jesus, the son of Mary is a messenger / prophet of God .
C. How can you solve what the Church calls a mystery?
M. We use the Holy Qur’an as the standard to correct the changes made by men in the previously revealed scriptures. If you can now believe in God as one, the Holy Ghost as Gabriel the favorite angel of God, and Jesus, the son of Mary, as a Prophet, why don’t you go one step further and accept Muhammed as the Last Messenger? Read the Shahadah (Testimony), first in English, then in Arabic to accept the truth of Islam.
C. Read it to me in English so I can understand it first.
M. “I bear witness that there is no deity except Allah, Who has no partner, and Muhammed is His slave, servant and messenger”. “Ash-hadu Allah Ilaha illal-Lahu wahdahu la shareekalahu wa ash-hadu anna Muhammadan abduhu wa rasuluh.”
C. Wait a minute! What about my great-grandparents who passed away? They were all Christians.
M. Abraham (pbuh) had left his parents and great-grandparents when the Truth was manifested to him. He was only about 13 years old then if you remember.Everyone is responsible for himself. Maybe the Truth hadn’t
come to your ancestors as clearly as it comes to you now. The Holy Qur’an states in Surah 17:15: “Whoever goes aright, then he goes aright only for his own soul’s benefit. And whoever goes astray, he goes astray only to his own soul’s loss. No laden soul can bear another’s load. And We (Allah) never punish until We have sent an apostle (to give warnings).”The Truth has come to you now and it is up to you to accept it
or reject it. It’s your choice.
C. Could you explain as to why in the Qur’an it states “WE” for Allah like you just said? I know Muslims believe in One God only.
M. Very good question. As I explained earlier in the Arabic and Hebrew languages and certain languages there are two types of plural. One is plural of numbers and the other of respect. This “WE” is a “WE” of royalty and respect. Example: When the Queen makes a proclamation, she says: “We have decided to make this proclamation etc.” She does not say “I” have decided to do this or that. It is the royal “We”. In the same manner when Allah speaks, He says “WE” instead of “I”. Only in very few places when there are dire warnings does Allah say “I”. Do you understand?
C. Okay, now I understand. But is it not possible to accept both Islam and Christianity?
M. “There is no compulsion in religion.” You can believe, as you want. But if you combine both faiths you haven’t surrendered to Allah yet. You are still a disbeliever, as Allah states in the Qur’an, Surah 4:150-152: “Verily those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to make distinction between Allah and His messengers saying ‘We believe in some (messengers) and reject others; and wish to take a way in
between (this and) that, they are disbelievers in truth. And We have prepared for disbelievers a humiliating torment. To those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make no distinction between any of them (messengers), We shall give them their rewards, and Allah is ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.’”
C. Is it not better that I do not yet read the Shahadah (witness),
so that I am not yet committed?
M. That is your decision. As soon as you reach adulthood and you are mentally competent, you are then committed whether you make the Shahadah (witness) or not. Allah created this world for a specific purpose. He has given you the intellect to differentiate between right and wrong. He has sent many Prophets as warners. We are created to worship Him alone. That is our purpose. Surah 3:191: “... Our Lord! You have not created (all) this without purpose, Glory to You! ... “Surah 90:8-10: “Have We not made for him (human being) a pair of eyes? And a tongue and a pair of lips? And shown him the two ways. (good and evil)?”Surah 51:56: “And I (Allah) created not the jinns and mankind except they should worship Me (alone).” (Every good deed done sincerely for the pleasure of Allah alone is also worship.)Surah 18:7: “Verily! We have made that which is on earth as an adornment for it, in order that We may test them (mankind) as to which of them is best in deeds.”
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